Comments on: Voice of Reason

By: SC

SC — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:47:07 +0000

I live in Eastlake Island, and way back, before this association started interfering with the security, there was a dedicated security vehicle in the Marina and patrols were done regularly. Then talk started of a Marina-wide security scheme, and the Chub vehicle was all of a sudden shared with other vehicles.

I still pay Chub for monitoring and armed response, and I believe so does about 600 other households in Marina Da Gama.

Now that we have a “security scheme” in Park Island, run by Southern Security, we never see the Chub vehicle in this part of the woods. They are always in Cannon Island Way and Battleridge Road.

With in the region of 600 members in Marina Da Gama, Chub should have a dedicated patrol car for Marina Da Gama. Quite frankly, I am thinking of boycotting Chub. Why am I paying them if they are not even prepared to patrol my area?
SC

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:48:39 +0000

Hi William.
Carefull Bud, pretty soon you will be co-opted onto excom. It has long been roumoured that you will then be asked to do the chicken-dance and swear an oath of secrecy. We’ll miss your input. It’s a wonder Anita has not been co-opted yet.

By: Anita

Anita — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:04:46 +0000

In all fairness to Peter Harrison, it was not he who told the members to shut up and sit down, it was members who shouted at other members. Peter merely allowed it to happen.

By: Editor

Editor — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 10:53:15 +0000

Dear William
Just to clarify some matter I have to say the following:
You clearly have not read your constitution. 60 people (out of a possible 1300) represent a quorum. It has been one of the major objections in this matter and is one of the reasons why I call this constitution a “viper in our midst” and unconstitutional.
ExCom are mostly co-opted and not voted in. I did not see any members of ExCom being voted in at the AGM.
An ExCom member was earmarked for the Security Manager’s job of R20 000.00 per month (for what will effectively be a half-day job). She was to have an assistant at R10 000.00 per month. Debt collecting was going to be done by an ExCom member’s company. Do you want more?
The Association’s AGM’s are private and only members and their spouces (or guests) are allowed to attend. I do not consider myself a member of this Association, so, yes, I did infiltrate the meeting.

By: GW

GW — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 10:18:03 +0000

If you read the page, the Viper in our Midst, you will see that the viper refers to the constitution. I agree wholeheartedly that it is a dangerous snake, waiting to strike.
There is a huge difference between a homeowners and a civic association. In a civic associaiton, you will not be able to rule in such a bully-style. People will resign.
What gives anyone the right to change the fundamental conditions on which I bought my home without my permission? Whether i have paid my subs or not, you do not have the right to make that decission. If you are deciding on when to have meetings, grass verges etc. yeah, I won’t have the right to vote if I had not paid, but not on fundamental issues such as implementing a sectional-title scheme when I bought my home freehold. Eventually everyone will have to pay in any event, even if it is only when you sell your property, so, yes, if people are going to be materially effected by the decision, everyone should have a vote, (even long-term tenants.)
As for the conflict resolution idea, great idea, if totally impractical. 1300 households, 1300 different opinions.

By: William

William — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 10:03:58 +0000

Once again, it is quite bewildering to hear that people get told to “sit down and shut up.” Excom, did this happen? If so, this is not leadership. What is your side of the story?

Has it been proposed to Excom that we get an arbitrator in?

It is beginning to be clear to me that the problem is two fold:

1. Poeple do not like the way teh Excom seem to change the constitution at will. I am no property lawyer but I do know that any change to the constitution has to be voted on by a quorum at least and if changes have been made without the proper quorum present and without it being properly voted on then that change cannot be. The Excom cannot change things in the constitution at will no matter how much they try. So the sensible thing is to be there at the meetings and vote. They may be able to tell you to sit down and shut up but they can’t tell you not to vote. So attend the meetings and vote otherwise the AGm are made up of people who support the Excom. if you want your cause addressed, get your supporters together and go there and vote.

I need to re-emphasise that the Home Owners Association, the Constitution and the Excom are there for us and by us. If you want to see change, be there and vote on it rather than staying away and shouting from the side lines.

If the vote does not go your way, then you are in the minority. Make peace with it and keep in mind that pooling resources is better than splitting resources.

2. It seems people do not want to go into a type of group security scheme. This is a pity as we can do so much more as a group by pooling our financial resources. If Excom have a crazy idea of how this will work and the costs involved, why not look into it ourselves and work with them and see which security company can do better. it is not actually up to the Excom to do this. They can volunteer, like they do for everything else, but there is no harm in us all helping out. At least then you have a hand in organising this and the final outcome is influenced by you.

I agree that having a boom is not going to help as it focuses the gaurds there. A patrolling unit, one car and two bicycles per island, for example, is much better. A show of force on an unplanned route means the criminals cannot predict the patrol and plan their evenings ‘shopping’.

I see that people have already spent money on their own systems but all systems can be bypassed. An armed unit on a random looping partrol is much better. Hell, if the government would listen I would have the army deployed on all our streets. Crime would stop instantly. Anyone wanna join me in lobbying the government for this? I am pretty sure that our infantry has little to do and our tax money is paying them to have little to do.

Doc, you mentioned a 3rd force behind the puppet Peter harrison. Interesting idea. What I have not understood yet is what this 3rd force stand to gain. Money? Excom don’t get paid for their time(I hope). maybe an underhanded consiracy to get their own security company in on the deal? Nepotism? Power? Over what and whom? This is a tiny little suburb on planet Earth. Why would anyone try to gain from it and what could they gain from it?

I respectfully request that you please avoid words like ‘stupid’. Remember, every action that any of us take, objectors and supporters alike, should be constructive. If I was Peter harrison and I read that, I would not be inspired to change my ways or listen to you. So it has no value and makes no contribution to the solution.

If Peter harrison and Excom told people to shut up and sit down, I acknowledge, that is really bad. But don’t hit back or we will never know in the end who threw the first punch and we will contunue to point fingers.

Eerybody keep your side respectful and clean so that there are no judgements made based on revenge, hate etc.

Respect to Anita for her words above. I feel she is a good example to all that despite disagreements, we never need to pass personal insults.

Excom, how about some constructive discussion from you? This is an open forum. Voice your frustrations (kindly), make constructive criticisms (always) and let’s stop this controversy in it’s tracks.

It can be done!

By: Anita

Anita — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:13:48 +0000

Dear William

I can only say: “If only.”
I am, and have always been, more than willing to sit and thrash this thing out. Alas we have not been able to achieve this.
The reason why most of the objectors do not speak up at (or even come to)the association’s AGM’s is because, on previous occasions, they were told to shut up and sit down etc. Why go to an AGM if you are not heard?
All things aside, Mr. Harrison does not even have to apologise to me personally. I hold no grudges and am still willing to talk.

By: Doc Jan

Doc Jan — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:58:35 +0000

William read the so-called Constitution. Excom can appoint an arbitrator. They will never do that because the so-called constitution is so outdated and not inline with the constitution of the country. The objectors are objecting to the way Excom went about in changing the so-called constitution. I suggest you write to Excom and asked them to appoint an arbitrator.

By: Doc

Doc — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:56:52 +0000

Just to remind you that Peter Harrison is the puppet. There is a 3rd force behind this and controlling Harrison. I think he is too stupid to see that. I will see the the Parlement Chairman of Home Affairs just after the opening of Parlement in 2008 about Harrison. Harrison gets all emotional when he gets attacked in the media but when he attacks the objectors that is nothing. We must remember it is under his poor chairmanship that we are in this mess. Qually is also part of this mess. The Doc

By: Cheshirecat

Cheshirecat — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:00:39 +0000

I have mixed feelings on this letter. Mostly, I agree with it, although I do have some comments. In this comment, I will only concentrate on one aspect of your letter, but as security is the reason why this whole conflict started, I feel it is the most important one.
The security scheme as envisaged by the Association is, in my opinion, not only inadequate, but also seriously dangerous. It soothes people into a false sense of security, thereby allowing them to drop their guard and exposing them to danger.
Guards cannot always be trusted, and even if they are trustworthy, they are easily circumvented.
Questions
– Why, with so many South African citizens subscribing to some or other security firm, is our crime rate higher than it ever was?
- The Association wants R220.00 per month for security, not R170.00. Why should it cost more when all of us pay than when we pay for it in our own private schemes?
- The Association wants R60 000 a month for administration of this scheme. Do you still think that they will not want to make money out of it?
- Park Island Quays, a genuine ‘security complex.’ has and extremely high crime rate, one of the highest in the Marina. Surely this proves that guarding is not the solution?
I agree that, if the majority of the people want the security scheme, they should have it. It is clear that the majority do not see it as a solution. If the rest feel that the security scheme will work, let them pay for it voluntarily. Nobody is stopping them, but they should stop bullying their neighbours into joining. If their neighbours feel it is a waste of money, they should not be called names, ostracized or pressured. We should not be asked to take a second job to pay for something we do not believe in.
Lastly, this has very little to do with the levies ExCom wanted to ask. You got something for your levies – rates were paid, the building painted, public open spaces maintained etc. We don’t. We have to pay our own rates, paint our own buildings and, incidentally, look after our own safety. We have no common property and the parks etc. are looked after by Council. This has everything to do with property rights and the fact that we did not buy into a security village because we did not want to live in a security village.