My name is Cathy. I live in San Marina.
San Marina Recreational Club has been made probably the most unpopular club in the world due to the bullying dictator of a chairman. For the last couple of months, we have been going around San Marina to collect signatures from members in order to close the club. It is a long process, as everyone wants to vent their frustration about the club. Thus far we have only covered about 100 homes, and have collected around 80 signatures. Most of those who did not sign the petition, were tenants. The majority of the people we have spoken to do not want to belong to the club, they do not use it, but they are forced to belong, even though they cannot afford it. The cheek of it is that we were told by some members that, even though they are paid up members, in addition to their monthly club fees they still have to fork out R5.00 per child to use the swimming facilities? Goodness, what do they pay their monthly fees for? Nogal 3 months in advance?
Some residents have voiced their concerns about mismanagement of the funds of the club. Although unsubstantiated, at this point, this matter will be investigated.
Regarding the club itself, whose stupid idea was it to put that hideous wall around the tennis court? It’s the most impractical, ugly structure I have ever seen. The balls bounce off the wall, getting under the feet of the players and you cannot keep an eye on your children playing in the playground.
In our travels around San Marina, I have been appalled by the deterioration of San Marina properties. It is clear that the Standards Committee of the Marina Da Gama Association have absolutely no impact in San Marina. They either ignore San Marina in total, or they do not have the ability to have standards enforced. What are we supposed to pay them for?
Neither the club nor the Association are in touch with the will of the people. They both need to go.
87 users commented in " San Marina residents take a stand "
Follow-up comment rss or Leave a TrackbackGood morning
I am glad to see that I am been talked about. That means I am doing my job as the Chairman of San Marina. I encourage in what you are doing as it must be hard to get those signatures.
I have no problem people attacking me as the Chairman of the club but let it be known to all that if you make this personal I will hunt you down and take you out of your misery like a sick animal.
I encourage all to question any activity that happens at the club including financials. If you feel that there was financial gain by anyone then I encourage you to request the financials which was given to you via the auditors. Before making allegations make sure your facts are in order as I am prepared to protect my dignity to the full extent.
When it comes to the decision making of the club it is up to the commitee to decide on behalf of yourself since you have no interest in it. Do not judge them as they are giving up their time for FREE to cater for your needs.
With regard to the R5 per child using the pool. I do not know who told you this as it is false. No money has been taken from anyone in the last year and a half since I have been on the commitee. If it is happening then I need to know so that I can take legal action.
With regard to the wall. This was a legal mandate that we had to do but since you are not a tennis player how can this bother you. In actaul fact you are the only only who ever complained about it. Everyone is quite inpressed with it.
Again I say that if you have an issue with me then be brave enough to confront me face to face and not like a coward who has nothing better than the write crap like this on blogs.
This will probaly never be displayed as I am prepared to stand up for my commitee and the property I own namely San Marina Recreational Club.
Hello Cathy
Where will I go and play tennis and swim in Summer if you close down the club? It is only R50 per month for me to enjoy all the facilities there as I cannot afford to buy a house with a tennis court and pool and myself and my family have so much fun there? Why do you want to spoil things for the people that are enjoying the club?
Theresa
Come on, Leon, calling everything written on this website cr*p is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, don’t you think? Most of what is written about the MDGA (of which you are an Excom member) is true – as for ‘your’ SMRC I really wouldn’t know, but sincerely hope it’s not a case of same old same old.
You’re going to hunt people down to take them out their misery like sick animals? Well, now THAT’s positively psycho (I’m not surprised people like Cathy haven’t approached you!). If the MDGA saga ends up in the High Court I’d present your representations as evidence of your unsuitability to hold a position, ANY position, of trust. Is this how you intend sorting out those “bitter-einder” MDGA members now that the Chairman is moving on to greener pastures? Because if so, then you’re seriously misjudging the situation.
Have a nice day
Hey Theresa isn’t Cathy your mum???
San Marina Recreational Club seems to have its own little Robert Mugabe. Saying things like “I will hunt you down and take you out of your misery like a sick animal” could land Mr. Lee in big trouble, as, should anything happen to Cathy in the mean time, he could be held directly responsible. I would suggest that Cathy (and anyone dealing with the San Marina matter) immediately get a restraining order against Mr Lee.
If Mr. Lee wants to protect his “dignity”, he should refrain from using bad language and threats. No-one could have injured his “dignity” as much as he himself has done with this comment.
Doing a job for “free” does not give you licence to abuse.
I might have taken things a bit seriously this morning therefore I apologize.
I do not like it when allegations and statements is thrown around in the world wide web when it is untrue and unfounded.
The club has an open door policy and all info is readily available via the website. It is availible to all paid up members too.
It is people like Cathy that starts rumours then hides behind everyone else when the time of explaining needs to be done. I do not like it when the club’s reputation is been damaged by imuture people who do not have the courage to come to the AGM and voice their opinion. They send their followers.
When it comes to me being a member of the MDGA. This is my choice. If you want to use it against me that is fine so long it is not personal.
That is all I have to say.
Leon, no offense but what you write doesn’t make any sense.
You can choose to be a member of the MDGA? The rest of us are being told that we have to belong. What do you know that we don’t?
If the MDGA affair reaches the High Court I will still present your representations as evidence that you are unfit to hold a position of trust. I’m afraid your loony ranting this morning can’t simply be written off with an ‘oops I’m sorry I didn’t mean it’. The damage has been done.
Not wanting to get personal, I trust you understand the full implications of your threat?
Is this the Theresa who said “The more members of the committee you meet, the less you will want to fight with them, because as I have realised over the last few months as Secretary, they are very kind and helpful people.” in the “Excom members respond” post?
Theresa, do you have any idea what “kind and helpful” means? You attack an elderly lady on the internet, calling her an “idiot” and to “catch a wake up”. You publicly support the SMRC Chairman who tells her that he will hunt her down and take her out of her misery like a sick animal.
The Chairman does go on to apologise, but in the same apology he calls her an “imuture”(sic) coward. And then he has the gall to say “so long it is not personal.”!!!! So it’s ok for him to get personal, but anyone trying it on him will be “put out of their misery”?
Be careful whom you associate with, Theresa. People do tend to judge you by the company you keep. If Cathy is indeed your mother, Theresa, shame on you!! May your children never turn on you like you turned on their grandmother.
“but let it be known to all that if you make this personal I will hunt you down and take you out of your misery like a sick animal”
This comment my Leon Lee I find quite disturbing. I myself have ripped off the likes of “Pietie, better known for the headless chicken chairman, Janna Mann our esteemed standards member who”s apparent eye sight is in a serious state of deterioration, and lets not forget our local councilor that absconds from the most basic of duties.
But you Mr Lee to basically threaten who ever stands in your way. Listen take me on, at least face me like a man, Don”t threaten women by intimidation like that!!!
Wonder if you will be so foul mouthed the time I”m finished with you!!
Warren
The guy must be a Julius Malema fan. Probably also did not get his matric.
As with the MDGA this is not a sectional title scheme with common property. This is enforced membership of a social club. It would be like everyone in Zeekoevlei being forced to subsidise the local yacht club. What happened to freedom of association? The title deed restriction is vague and misleading not to mention archaic. The SMRC owns the R2,5m+ property in its own right and has opened its doors to other sectors of the public at its discretion. Clearly membership of any recreation club that is not part of an enclosed private estate should be voluntary. I have no doubt that the constitutional court would support that principle. Leon, do the right thing and let the little guys go.
Shame that the only comment that gets repeated and out of context is that “if you make it personal I will take you out of misery”.
The other false statements that is been made does not get mentioned or proven. Truth must hurt. Now you are also attacking her daughter also out of context.
The cartoon is well drawn and do depicts me well. I will be using it in our next newsletter and see what responce I get. Maybe I am Robert Mugabe who runs the SMRC like Zimbabwe. Just grab what ever I see and take it for myself. The selfish bastard who only hunts down old defenseless ladies better known as Hitler and Napoleon.
Warren I am every weekend at the club. If there is anybody who would like to meet me you are welcome to come down to the club. You will get me there.
Maybe then you can see where all that money I take from defenseless old ladies is going too since the financials is also been critisied.
On a last note can somebody please ask Cathy not to travel to the other side as I really do not want to be blamed for that.
My previous comment this morning has been blocked…WHY???
Your comment was not blocked, but was merely awaiting moderation. All comments are screened for profanity and SPAM content. Other than that, you may say what you wish.
When it comes to me being a member of the MDGA commitee. This is my choice. If you want to use it against me that is fine so long it is not personal.
Have anyone thought what will happen if the MDGA gets disbanded. Will everyone be allowed to paint their houses any colour and build anything on their property within council rules like a zink shack for a garage. Will we loose the status of being a special area. What happens to the funds and how will it be dished out.
After this issue has been won in court what will happen to the Marina. Will we become a normal area around us like Retreat;Steenberg or Vrygrond.
What is the main objective after this issue has been resolved. What holds for us in the future.
Any comments.
The answer to your question, Leon, is no, Marina da Gama is and remains zoned a “special area”. Council will not approve building plans that don’t conform with its fairly rigid building regulations nor will it approve houses painted a colour other than white. What will happen when the MDGA is rendered a voluntary association? I think you’ll find that more residents will partake freely in discussions and volunteer their time and expertise, the affairs of the MDGA will become open & transparent and we will (re)gain a healthy sense of community where we can conduct our lives like adults with mutual respect & tolerance. I’m not sure why you’re so worried, though. If the MDGA is as marvellous as you believe, then it will surely retain its membership regardless. Now for a good question you might care to answer: if the MDGA were voluntary how many members in your opinion would remain members? How many are currently paid-up? Of how many in total?
Julius seems to have taught the bloke well… just say that your comment was taken out of context and you will be fine.
if the MDGA were voluntary how many members in your opinion would remain members? 0 because it will cost them money and time. Are you volunteering
Julius seems to have taught the bloke well… just say that your comment was taken out of context and you will be fine – This was taken out of context. At least I do not hide behind an alias
Dear Leon
Your apology comes across as insincere, given the sarcasm and feeble excuses. Your comment has not, nor can it be taken out of context. Presumably, Admin has not tampered with it, or else you would have said so. So, one can only assume that the comment was posted at your own request, there for the entire world to see. It must be remembered that it was not only Cathy whom you threatened, but anyone who dare say anything against you. The mere fact that these words even crossed your mind is frightening and must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. Nothing in your comment is more important and no real or perceived violation to your “dignity” warrants a threat of violence.
Now to other matters: I have been unable to locate your financial statements on the San Marina website. Could you please direct me to the correct page?
Regarding dissolving the Association, Marina Da Gama is certainly not going to turn into a shanty-town just because it no longer has a home-owners’ association to keep it in check. Most of the owners in Marina Da Gama do take pride in their properties and are quite willing and capable of performing regular maintenance without having to be told to do so by the Association. I believe that the Association is doing more harm than good by sending out those letters and know of several people who have postponed already scheduled maintenance as they do not want it to appear to be complying with the Association’s demands. Left to their own devices, they would have just done the maintenance. The MDGA is no more effective than a voluntary association can be. Both have to work through Council or the Courts to enforce the rules.
I think that you underestimate the pride which the home-owners have in the Marina but the sense of community is being destroyed by the intimidating nature of its “rulers”.
Financials will never be displayed on any websites.
If you are so convince that we do not need an Association why do you not put in a proposal do dissolve it. It can be done if the majority agrees to it. Then a voluntary membership can be put in place.
Just one question though is who will be paying to remove the clause out of all the deeds of the 1300 members.
Leon, I’ve already given you my opinion. But let me elaborate. I believe that residents will readily sign up as members of a voluntary association that respects their individuality & dignity, doesn’t extort money for projects falling outside its Objects, doesn’t bully, intimidate & threaten, doesn’t withhold what should be open records, doesn’t treat its members’ legitimate queries & concerns with (what the Chairman so eloquently describes as) a ‘dismissive approach’ and doesn’t misrepresent facts at every turn.
The MDGA Constitution is an absolute nonsense not least because the MDGA doesn’t see fit to comply with its own voting requirements – as was borne out beyond any doubt at the SAHRC mediation session (the SAHRC issued a report confirming a.o. this very point).
Are you saying that if the MDGA becomes voluntary you and your like will no longer offer your services for free? And now why would that be exactly?
Leon, removing a title deed restriction is a relatively simple process and if one considers the hefty levies the MDGA had planned for us any associated costs will be comparatively cheap and money well spent in the long run.
Of course you don’t HAVE to publish the AFS on the website, but as a non-profit association there is a public interest element (as a PBO you deprive the fiscus of taxes) and accordingly it would reflect well on you and the SMRC to make them publicly available. What have you got to hide? The AFS of all listed companies are published so why not yours?
As much as we can’t propose a resolution to undo a resolution that was passed unlawfully, we also can’t submit a proposal to undo an association’s unlawful claims to be something it isn’t. To date the MDGA hasn’t been able to properly identify itself as the same association referred to in my title deed. Now that’s a problem.
As far as I am concerned, ExCom has failed to supply me with any proof whatsoever that the Association is indeed the Association referred to in my title deed. In my opinion, it is already a voluntary Association and need not be dissolved. The clause in my title deed is a misleading clause which should be declared null and void and can be taken off if and when I sell my house and a new title deed has to be issued to the new owner.
For this reason too, it is not an option to have the Association voted out. It can remain as a voluntary Association.
May I ask the reason as to why you are not prepared to publish your financials? If you have nothing to hide, why hide it? It would also be of interest to anyone wanting to buy into San Marina in order to establish what their responsibilities would be.
We are not a registered NPO as yet. I never said we where one either.I am currently busy with it via council. Our constitution only dictates that we operate as an NPO as the clubs objectives is not to make profit. It has not done so yet either.
If you are really interest in the financials of SMRC as a non member of SMRC then I suggest that you ask Cathy for it as she being a member of SMRC received the financials prior to our AGM.
I will stop my servises immediatly if it becomes voluntary as it would mean that I would not not need to pay and do not need to be concerned about what happens to the voluntary money that you will be receiving. Why give up free time to something that I will not have any benefit out and also have no concern about since I will be doing my own thing without any control form any association.
I joined the MDGA committee to see what it is all about since it is easy to sit on the wall and give opinions. A better perspective is achieved that way. Now that I now the how the management is run which in my opinion is hard work to please all. I can start suggesting in a professional manner and not to dignify people via a blog like this one to change the daily running of the MDGA to the time we live in. Maybe accommodate you at the same time.
If it is so simple to remove the clause then why is it not published. I am prepared to pay the fees. What is the fees and what is the process.
JT will you and Anita be the founding members of the new association?
Will you be giving up your FREE time to run it?
What rules will you be putting in place?
What more are you prepared to give compared to the current association?
I hope less talking and more doing will be happening from your side.
I’m also Cathy and would like to know where on earth JT finds the time to write such rubbish. Does he or she not have anything better to do. get real and stop being such an idiot, but like the saying goes “The devil finds work for idle hands”
Theresa and Leon are doing a fine job by running the club(Theresa has only just joined the committee)If everybody stopped paying their subs the club would die.The kid’s who live in San Marina would have nothing to do and would find other means of entertainment,like practicing their artistic skills on your walls.
I noticed Cathy was having fun at a party at the club the other night,looks like Cathy is also using the facilities and enjoying them.
THE WOLF AND THE LAMB from EASOP’S FABLES
A wolf met an innocent lamb who had strayed from the fold. The crafty wolf felt rather hungry, but he decided not to kill the lamb immediately; he wanted to find some excuse for making a meal of him. “Lamb’” said the wolf, “last year you rudely insulted me.”
“Indeed,” bleated the lamb sadly, “I was not born then.”
Then the wolf said: “Well, you feed in my pasture.”
“No, good sir,” replied the lamb, “I have not yet tasted grass.”
“Is that so!” replied the wolf, getting angry. “But I noticed you drinking at my well.”
“Oh, no,” answered the lamb, “I never yet drank water, for my mother’s milk is both food and drink to me.”
At this the wolf seized the lamb saying:
“Well! I won’t remain supperless any longer, even though you deny every one of my accusations.”
The tyrant will always find an excuse for his tyranny.
Hi Cathye
I don’t know you and you don’t know me. I am not idle by any stretch of the imagination so don’t make wild assumptions. Clearly you have little understanding of what is going on and even less tolerance of other people’s views so why waste your time visiting this site?
Bye Bye
Leon you miss the point – there is no need for a “new” association. The present MDGA simply isn’t what it claims to be and would continue as a voluntary association. Of course a new and different association can be formed at any time if that’s what the community chooses. Most suburbs have successful ratepayers associations and I would happily participate in a similar association here.
It’s worth bearing in mind that the SMRC was formed with the related title deed restriction during apartheid when government doctrine didn’t exactly support freedom of association, a concept now enshrined in our Constitution.
Your attitude towards voluntary associations and clubs speaks volumes. Are you seriously only looking out for yourself? The beauty of voluntary organisations is that they attract the right calibre of selfless folk – and it is their conduct which in turn attracts the members. Your kind seems to drive members away…
That the SMRC is not a PBO is a huge relief
I can’t tell you how relieved I am. Not sure that you would want it to be an NPO either though as the NPO Act actively encourages transparency. You might consider embracing the concept however and posting the financials on your website (I don’t know Cathy so can’t ask her for a copy).
A lot of blapper again from the folks that said they can do things. Now I get told that the association is not as bad as it is. It must just be amended to suite those who was victims of the old apartheid.
Like real polititions answers do not really get answered and hide behind excuses.
Why not disban the association and let people choose – No you can not because apartheid is holding you back.
You still have not answered the questions that was posted nor any of the bloggers.
Why do you not put in a proposal do dissolve it and have a voluntary one formed under your leadership. Hopefully it will be an open door policy just like the SMRC and not controlled like the apartheid era regime.
If is removing a title deed restriction is a relatively simple process – why has it not been done by yourself yet.
What is your solution to the dictatorship of the association.
How much better it will be under your leadership.
By the way all chairmans are tyrants. Because people are not mature enough to pay their subs the tyrents has no choice but to be the wolf and slowly endulge the eating of the lamb.
Why does the lamb not put her money where her mouth is and back up the allections that was made. Oh I forgot she is protected by the bloggers who is not members of SMRC and has no idea what is happening because they sit on a fence and blame apartheid for her wrong doing.
Let see if real answers is given on the question that was ask.
Morning Leon
Not all Chairmans are tyrants. Perhaps you haven’t had the opportunity to experience great leadership yet. I’m sure you will.
My point re apartheid is about FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION so not sure what you’re ranting on about(?)
Re the removal of title deed restrictions there is a process that needs to be followed and I respect that process. Your attorneys or auditors will be able to explain the various options to you. Although I’m not sure why you want to remove yours all of a sudden (?)
Thank you for being bold enough to communicate on this forum where other Excom members have been too chicken to tread. Without detracting from the serousness of the underlying issues, this website makes for great entertainment, don’t you think?
Have a lovely day!
p.s. must get back to my real work now…
At last I am glad to see to someone realises that there is a real world where the reality is different to fantasy.
The question still remains. Why must I now go to my attorneys to find out the process. Are you guys not on the ball here. Why can you not tell me. I hope you guys do not practicing a closed door policy because that will just not be right. Do you agree?
I presume now that the apartheid regime is here to stay since no one can really give proper and factaul answers.
I take it they are really legal since no one got it right to change their deed either.
Can I expect you to respond some time tonight again when I am sleeping and when you feel lonely to talk to someone.
Can I suggest a new topic as this one is becomming boring.
On a last note. I did not entertain anyone because I am a MDGA commitee member but as the chairman and owner of SMRC. I will defend it if allegations and statements are made by spineless individauls who hide behind blogs and who is not prepared to make it official by requesting information directly for scruntineering. Any information with regard to SMRC is availble to anyone who is a paid up member. I have never denied access to information and if I did then that individual should say there name and not hide behind aliases so that the commitee can action against me. The paid up members also have a right to take action as my club is not run under apartheid rules but under Zuma’s.
You just need to let me know before the time so that I can get rid of the evidence. Maybe get rid of the commitee and replace them with ones I can trust to lie for me.
By the way has anyone gone to Cathy yet and told her that I really do not want her to travel to the other side yet – downstairs where it is hot. The wolf is still hungry.
By the way my office colleques and friends is getting into this blog like 7 de laan. They can not wait for the next episode
Dear Leon
Now, let’s see if we can make this simple.
1) There is no need to dissolve the Association. It just needs to be put in its proper place. The research I have done shows that it is not the association referred to in my title deed. As an ExCom member, you are in an ideal position to verify what I have said. All you have to do, is look at the minute book, and see that the constitution has never been adopted by the members an AGM. No legal constitution, no legal home-owners’ association. Quite simple. You will also not find a document showing Council’s approval of the constitution (a requirement in Law). All you will find is a title deed restriction, imposed in 1972, that we have to belong to an Eastlake Association. The first anybody knew of any Eastlake Association, was in 1979. This so-called Association had far different objectives than was intended for the association the Administrator called for in the Title Deed. Hmmm. what happened between ’72 and ’79? And then all of a sudden, again without the permission of the owners, a new constitution appears from nowhere in 1986. Well, Association newsletters clearly say that the owners had no say in this constitution and that the owners never even got the opportunity to agree to the contract. Sorry, I am afraid you cannot enter into a contract with someone else if that person is not willing (or even given the opportunity) to agree to the contract.
2) So, as this is not the Association referred to in my title deed, I do not have to belong. No legal Eastlake Association (an association without a legal constitution is no legal association) was ever formed and the title deed restriction is therefore just a nonsense clause.
3) It therefore follows that the Association cannot sue me for levies/ subscriptions or whatever, as there is no binding contract between us.
Should you have any contradictory evidence, please let us have it as a matter of extreme urgency, as your failure to do so, may have serious legal implications. If you do not have any other evidence, the Association’s rightful place is as a voluntary association, and I will have no business putting a resolution forward to dissolve it, as I am no longer a member.
Leon. Stop making personal threats. It is not funny.
I will take it up with them to determine the staements you make is correct.
As far as the SMRC goes please make an effort to publish truth and factaul statements.
We do not want everybody to know you as person who back track and only publish things to suite your need.
The invitation is still open for anyone who would like to meet me face to face and meet me personally.
I am at the club every weekend working to make people like Cathy’s life a misery by painting ; putting up secure wall so that the kids do not drown and forcing parents to take responsibility for their kids and not use the facility as a dumping ground for an easy way out. Making sure the inviroment is a pleasant for those who are paid up and a misery for people like Cathy.
Has any of you bloggers been to the club recently or are you just assuming that SMRC is like the MDGA – a little Zimbabwe. Just do not forget to come via someone who has an ID card.
I am trying my best to keep foreigners out and exploiting the rights of others.
Leon, if you think you OWN the SMRC then you have been misinformed. Seriously misinformed.
You were sleeping last night while I was at my computer? Gee now there’s a thought. Now why am I not surprised that you switch on your computer when you want to talk to someone? I pick up the phone…
As an excom member of 2 associations it would be in your and your members’ best interests to consult your attorneys…after all they’d be best placed to explain these things to you in a way that you’d be able to understand.
Are you saying that SMRC information is only made available to paid-up members? You might want to bounce that one off your attorneys as well.
Come on, lighten up Leon you’re taking this website way too personally. At least your colleagues appreciate its entertainment value – hi guys
JT: I think you are confused. The SMRC do not have members but owners. In actaul fact 268 of them. I am one of them. Ask anyone for their deed as it clearly states that they are owners and not a members. That is why fees are compulsary so that the rates,water and electricty can be paid by all.
The office says hi too.
Anita: If the the Association is referred to you in your title deed why have not removed it since according to you it is only a just a nonsense clause.
Then you will need to spend so much time on blogs like this one.
You will be FREE from all specially that Pietie(chairman) of the MDGA.
Lastly I do not threaten people. I just loose my temper now and then specially when people talk because talking is nice. Then I take my frustration out on blogs like these ones.
I am actaully a calm and quite person.
Leon.
Tony probably said the same thing just before he shot and killed his neighbour. Now he is in Valkenberg and 2 children are without a mother. Maybe you should consider going for anger management classes?
Are you going to look for those documents for us? Pietie could not find it, but maybe you will have more luck.
Pssst, Julius, your next logical step is to substitute “take you out” with “eliminate”.
I enjoy the blog. Besides, Pietie is no longer an issue anyway. Didn’t he resign? So by the way, are you fixing to replace him?
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread
I fully agree with Chairman Leon. The subs need to be paid as we all are enjoying the greal facilities @ the club.
Viva Leon Viva
I am back. Had an executive for lunch. He did not do his job properly. A bit bony though.
Now on a serious note. SMRC was attacked by false information and it was defended with the truth. If you do not think so then ask away anything. I will try to answer in any way I can. If not then I will try finding out. What I know is what all owners know about SMRC.
If this blog was generated to keep the average Joe informed about the activities of the Marina and also to have the oppurtunity to be little individuals who is trying their best to accomodate most then why is it so difficult to get the correct info with regard to statements that is easily thrown around here on this blog.
I am being asked to supply info which everyone knows I can not give due to the fact that I do not know what you really want nor the fact that the Association is older than what I am. How can I tell you what happened 35 years ago.
If you are so sure of your facts why are you still battling to disassociate yourself from them – the Pietie crowd. The answer is simple. The Association is legal and there is nothing you or me can do about it. If we could why has it not done yet.
All what was achieved so far is that you have them taken to the SAHRC. Now what. Did the SAHRC have autority to declare the Association as ilegal and if that is the case where is that proof. That should be significant enough to have that little nonsense clause removed.
Then you should be free of maybe me. I might consider the Pietie post. Will see how it goes at the AGM. You never know. It is also so much fun on this blog. All these intelegtial questions and ………(still waiting on the answers)
Questions stays unanswered. Why???
With regard to my anger management. I am working on it. I started yesterday. A whole day without outburst. A great achievement for me.
Hi Garfield. Welcome to the discussion.
I agree, until such time as the club is sold, or dissolved or whatever, the owners of the club are responsible for paying levies. Rates and taxes have to be paid, as does electricity, etc, and the owners have no choice but to pay. If, however, the majority of the owners want to get rid of the club, they should put pen to paper and have it done. Once transfer takes place, they are no longer responsible. Simple. I do know of some special circumstances for some members, but in the majority of cases, the homeowners are responsible for the levies.
Still, the function of a chairman is not to be a bully or a debt collector and there is no reason to become personal or threatening. If the people don’t pay, let the law take its course. The courts are better equipped to handle these matters, and they do not tell debtors that they are spineless idiots blah, blah, blah. Then Leon can get on with running the club in a professional manner. Who knows, maybe if the club was run in a friendly way, more people will want to use it and pay their levies willingly without having to be sued.
Leon, you have been misinformed. The legal documentation I have in front of me confirms that you are NOT the owner of the SMRC. In fact it refers specifically to MEMBERS. Oh I get it, you think that because the registered owner of the property is “The Trustees for the time being of SMRC” that this means the trustees (and therefore you) own the property. Ha ha ha ha, no dear, it means that you hold the property ON BEHALF OF the SMRC. Please don’t make me explain what that means…
So perhaps you mean to do well and tell ‘the truth’ but facts are facts and your truth isn’t necessarily the truth. Incidentally this title deed here refers to the San Marina Sports Club – when did it change its name?
My, my, my!! What a lot of fuss over R50 per month. We in San Marina are really living up to the reputation of being the “Poorer Cousins” of Marina da Gama.
Let’s see what R50 can buy. 2 packets of cigarettes, 12 beers, 7 loaves of bread, a little more than 5 litres of petrol, etc. etc. etc. In other words not very much these days! For my R50 per month my family and I get to use the swimming pool, tennis court, play park for my child and the braai area. If I just had to use the municipal swimming pool in Muizenberg alone then I would have to travel 7 km. there and back and pay R33 (R13 per adult and R7 per child)each time my wife, my daughter and I wanted to swim. That equates to no more than one swim per month for my family for my R50!! Go to any tennis club and see what it will cost to hire a tennis court.
Cathy please advise how many of the 80 signatures you have are in arrears with their subs and who are from Fairlake. Be precise and give exact figures and don’t generalise. Why have only certain households been approached to sign the petition? No one has called on me – Coincidence!!
I have been a member of SMRC for almost 10 years (and served on the committee under 4 different chairpersons) and have never been arrears with my subs therefore I don’t have an issue with the club. It is my opinion that the signatories on the petition are made up mainly of those who are in arrears and are looking for a way not to pay or those form Fairlake who, I heard, were told by a certain person/s “Don’t pay, they can’t do anything to you”. Well, the news is you are legally bound as per your Deed of Sale or Deed of Transfer which you signed or was signed on your behalf by the transferring attorneys when you bought your property. If you did not like the conditions then why did you purchase property in San Marina in the first place? Don’t say that you didn’t know as ignorance is no excuse.
As for as the “hideous” wall is concerned, well it is a matter of personal opinion. Cathy, I am sure that I would find something hideous (in my opinion) on your property and the same for you on mine.
Leon, you are doing a great job in recovering the outstanding fees form the defaulters and “free-loaders”. Keep up the good work!!
If facts is so important to you why have you or any other person not answered me on the questions I asked. Maybe hiding the truth from your followers. Maybe the truth is that you can not change anything and that the MDGA is legal.
Again I ask:
If removing a title deed restriction is a relatively simple process – why has it not been done by yourself.
Did the SAHRC have autority to declare the Association as ilegal and if that is the case where is that proof. That should be significant enough to have that little nonsense clause removed.
Is the MDGA and its constitution illegal. I need proof for this one.
Remember the constitution is a living instruction to its committee members. It can be changed at any time by members like yourself. What is stopping you from doing that. I am doing it at this AGM. To much effort making up a proposal???
These are simple questions but a big effort is made not to answer them. Why???
Do you have your facts in order?
With regard to the name change. I do not know when it was done but will find out. Just like the MDGA the SMRC have a right to change its name. Same rules still apply as per the deeds office. I queried the name change of the MDGA by them.
You guys must give yourself a pat on the shoulder. This is the best blog so far – 47 times commented and still counting. The closet one is Wind of change who only have 4.
Think that when I publish this site in my next newsletter how the response will then be.
Just a shame some of you run under aliases.
Hope you guys won’t mind me using the cartoon. I want to find out if I am really a bully and a tyrant. Maybe request a referendum.
Ask the members to comment on this site.
Let see
My!!!My!!!My!!! I really touched a nerve, didn’t I JT? You are right we don’t know each other, Thank God !! I would not want to be associated with people that are just Hot Air. Are you also one of those in arrears? from your comments it would appear so. Referring to PeterEl’s comments no one has “visited” me either. I wonder why??
Leon
To date, there are 78 posts and 312 comments on this website. If you click on the drop-down menu of just under the main photo of this website, you will see a list of all the posts. Alternatively, if you click on “Home” and scroll down to the bottom of the page, you will find a “Next Page” link. Click on the link and you will see the next 10 posts. Continue the process until you only see a “Previous Page” link at the bottom of the page. Please feel free to comment on any and all posts.
Have fun.
Cathye, be an Angel dear and disappear…
(Not only have you lost the plot, you’re not even on the same page.)
Leon, take a break. You’re starting to sound seriously loony. I know I said this site has good entertainment value, but that doesn’t make it the entertainment channel. Although I must concede that you are the star of the show. Let us know tomorrow what’s in your title deed ok? Maybe we all learn something new…
Peter, if it’s so cheap then why don’t the guys who use the club offer to pay a market related subscription and free the litte guys who don’t use the facilities and for whom it’s perhaps not such good value? Forcing people to belong to a social club is archaic. In fact, if you levy a slightly higher entrance fee for visitors and structure the SMRC along proper NPO lines (to secure the property rates rebate Leon’s trying to wangle) you’ll more than compensate for the few missing R50′s from the little guys. You know, think outside the box, take a look around, see how similar clubs manage their affairs, get creative. Look & learn. If we respect our differences, individuality, right to choose and the principle of freedom of association we’ll all get along just fine. I promise.
I find it truly mind blowing that we still have groups of people who feel the need to dominate others. For what? Oh yes, of course, it’s the money…
Leon, silly me, I forgot to ask – while you’re inspecting your title deed won’t you check what information the deeds office gave you regarding the MDGA name change? Then we can discuss.
“If removing a title deed restriction is a relatively simple process – why has it not been done by yourself.”
Asked and answered. “and can be taken off if and when I sell my house and a new title deed has to be issued to the new owner.”
“Did the SAHRC have authority to declare the Association as illegal and if that is the case where is that proof. That should be significant enough to have that little nonsense clause removed.”
The Association is not illegal. It is just not the association referred to in our title deeds and its constitution was not legally enacted. The SAHRC have the authority to make findings on the constitutionality of the Association and its constitution and to make recommendations. You are quite correct, it should be enough to have that little nonsense clause removed. The wheels of justice turn slowly. At this stage, you are not entitled to any proof.
“Is the MDGA and its constitution illegal. I need proof for this one.”
Asked and answered. Many, many, many times already. Besides, ExCom must produce the proof that the Association is legal. You are the ones making demands on us. As per the above, the Association is not illegal, but has no legal constitution. It also does not have the right to demand membership from us. I can however assure you that some of the actions of its ExCom members are very dicey indeed. For instance, it is illegal to incite members or threaten people with violence.
“Remember the constitution is a living instruction to its committee members. It can be changed at any time by members like yourself. What is stopping you from doing that. I am doing it at this AGM. To much effort making up a proposal???”
Asked and answered. You cannot “vote out” something which was unlawfully “voted in”. You cannot legally change a constitution which has not been legally enacted to start with. Voting on the matter would be a waste of effort and time.
“These are simple questions but a big effort is made not to answer them. Why???”
I have already gone to considerable effort to answer your questions.
“Do you have your facts in order?”
Yes.
Swimming in the sea is free.
Cathye, Dear, won’t you do us a favour please and go play in your room for a bit. The grown-ups are talking.
Leon
This website is copyrighted, but may use the cartoon in your next newsletter on condition that you credit it to http://marinadagamasecurity.co.za
Leon
Have you thought about trying to understand the frustration of some of us WHO do not want to belong to the recreational club. You in your capacity as chairman have not tried to be understanding and fair, discussed the situation, in a friendly manner.
You are very aggressive and have not tried to help in any way, if I was in your shoes as chair person I would try to help as best as I could to solve this PROBLEM, in this small community of ours.
Aggression and threats never work, as you get the hackles up of everyone else concerned and then there will never be any understanding.
This is a small community of Marina da Gama know as San Marina and have nothing to do with the other side of the boundry and maybe as a community we could solve this problem like adults and stop acting like children who can’t get their way and throw tantrums.
For those who would like to belong to the recreational club be my guest, but please stop forcing the situation on to others who do not want that, some of us have our own swimming pools and braai facilities, and as for the tennis court here is a suggestion why not charge a booking fee for the court and then those who wish to use them can do so.
Here a thought, sports clubs or recreational clubs etc do not force you to become a member you have freedom of choice and not verbally attacked and forced to become a member, and as for attaching furniture and threatening people is no way to act, Leon do you have small peoples syndrome, because you cannot get your way you get arrogant and abusive…… NOT GOOD for your reputation which has gone down the tubes by 150% in some of our eyes.
We have our own recreation for where we stay and we pay for that, NOW WHY would we want to pay for something else aswell. As for your comment on knowing about the club in the deed, there are some people that were not informed and were phoned by the club and told that if they did not belong then their transfere would not go through, that to me is blackmail and down right rude. Some people never knew about the club and just got accounts, no-one came to visit the new owners and explain the situation and introduce themselves, so i ask you “why do you think you are getting this reaction from some people” in the small community who just want to have peace and do what they want to do, not what OTHERS want them to do.
And as for Theresa and her rude comments about her mother what example are you setting for your children….. I WONDER, you can be part of the club if you so wish but leave some of us alone.
I hope in your brains you can understand, as I think a 4 yr old would understand and act better about the situation than you lot are, you are like a bunch of spoilt children, if you do not get your way then bully everyone, that does not work, as bullies get put on the back burner and no-one wants to be associated with bullies, not how things work.
So try to be a bit more polite and accomodating to the situation and see if there is a way around this by Helping some of us in this small community and not bullying and harrasing those of us who would like to get on with our lives and not be part of this petty situation.
I think we deviated a bit of the topic so let us put in a nutshell. The SMRC was attacked specially the Chairman which is me. It was defended and now there is two choices to be made.
Leave the tyrant alone and let him do his function or have him voted out.
Both is quite easy. All you need to vote him out is a paid up member who is brave enough to put in a vote of no confidance. Two conditions apply here. One is to have your facts in order and the next be prepared to take over from him. No fence sitters allowed though.
Anybody prepared to take that risk???
Glad to see a new forum was opened up.
It was my intention that when I use any content it will be credited to those who created it.
Now about the MDGA.
To put this now in a nutshell is as follows.
According to what I see here is that the MDGA is legal but the constitution is ilegal. The choice is now do you scrap the constition and put a new one in place as you can not have a Association without a constitution.
The old one has power to dictate. It clearly says that your house must be white;your verges to be neatened and your wall to be 2.1m in height and be visible pleasant to the eye. No scrap to be in front of your house like broken rusted trailers and cars.If any of these rules are broken you get a letter of demand. You might land up in court. You are also forced to be a member at R170 a year.
The new one which be in place will be voluntary. Will have no power over you. You can paint your house any colour – in my case I like purple. Do not need aproval from the commitee to put up my double garage made of zink plate as council do approve it – harsh financial times these days. My grass can grow to the lengh I want and my vehicle that was written off and rusting away can park in fron of my house. You will save a whole R170 a year and the area will then really become a special area. Can you imagine the rainbow colour houses we will have instead of that bright white.
I think we should vote on the new constitution. It sounds very democratic and open minded. I do not say this in a sarcastic manner because I feel strongly to the freedom of choice. Why should I be dictated by a few who has no real interest in my needs. That little clause I have will also have no meaning to me.
If this what the people want then it should be done and put in place. The members should have the right to freedom of choice.
If admin will allow it I would like to have a new forum opened up on this website. It will display both sides of the story and open it up for discussion.
Mr. Lee, there is a third alternative. We can hunt you down and take you out like a sick animal.
Does that now sound like a personal threat?
Anita already asked that personal threats to be stopped as it is not funny.
It can become real.
Look at at Tony who shot his family due to outside pressure.
Jt, your comments, once again, makes no sense whatsoever. The club itself is not forcing anyone to belong to it – It is a legal requirement as per your Deed of Transfer/Sale.
If the “little guys” cannot afford R50 per month may I suggest that they sell their property to someone who will appreciate having the use of the club’s facilities and move across the road into a shack along with our Vrygrond neighbours. Just think you wont have to pay for rates, water or any other levies, most of all the princely sum of R50 p.m. to S.M.R.C. Electricity may be a problem. Jt, are you one of the “little guys”?
Cathy, while you are going about with your petition, why not draw one up to present to the City of Cape Town objecting to paying for rates, water, electricity etc. Or even better, petition Mr Trevor Manuel objecting to the payment of income tax. Now there’s a good idea!
Mr. Lee, I am hiding behind an alias because I am scared you are going to hunt me down and put me out of my misery like a sick animal. Call me a spineless coward if you like, but rather a Bang Jan than a Dooie Jan.
Peter, dear, you too have lost the plot. If I didn’t know better I’d swear you and Cathye must be related…
I understand Bang Jan
Jt, is “lost the plot” all you can say when you cant find any better comment to make? Once again your comment makes no sense whatsoever! Maybe you think that you are the only person in MdG who has “a plot”. Sorry to inform you but you are mistaken. Don’t feel bad – I am sure that a doctor of psychiatry can help you.
Shame, as the saying goes “where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be wise”
Peter & Cathye, we’re trying to have a discussion here with Leon and you guys keep chirping in with irrelevant gobbledy-goo. Please go find another blog where you can ‘chat’ to each other as the two of you are definitely on the same page and I’m sure could keep each other entertained for hours…
Now, now, down guys. But I have to agree with JT, Cathye, you are talking gobbledy-goo. Clearly you are a fan of Leon’s and would like to defend him. Fair enough. Maybe you should tell us why he is doing a good job and why you like him? Maybe you could even venture an opinion about the Marina Da Gama Association? Personal insults don’t achieve anything.
Jt, if you and Leon are having a private discussion then why not contact him directly via email or telephone and stop posting your nonsense on this blog for all and sundry to read. Or does this blog belong to you personally? It seems that anyone who has a different opinion to you is losing the plot. Wake up and respect the views of others. Freedom of Expression is part of our constitution.
I thought that a blog is for anyone with an interest in the subject to leave a comment. Then again it appears that I am not as educated as you are far as using a bolg is concerned. My apologies. I only got as far as Std 4 (Grade 6) in school. I wasn’t allowed to go any further as my father failed Std 5 in the same school!!!
As this has to do with security, may I “hijack” your blog to invite all residents of San Marina and Marina Moorings to come to a free neighbourhood watch “bring and braai”, disco & karaoke this Saturday 1st November from 5 p.m. onwards at the San Marina Recreational Clubhouse. Come along to find out more about the neighbourhood watch which was recently started in San Marina.
Please note that this function has nothing to do with the S.M.R.C. apart from them allowing us to use the hall free of charge (It seems that they are not that bad after all!). This invitation is open to all residents whether you are in arrears or not towards the S.M.R.C.
There are residents in the San Marina area who heard a knock on their door one morning – it was the sheriff of the court with papers to attach their few household belongings.
This was all thanks to Leon Lee. Did this spineless weasel ever think a little further than his arrogant self? Just maybe these people who had their worldly goods attached had no job, had children to feed, were on the verge of loosing their house or flat perhaps? Did this little man ever think of the consequences of his actions and perhaps precarious situation some of these people were in!!!
My God Lee don’t you ever think before taking actions like this?? What I think or presume is that you possibly work for a large corporation; maybe your exceptional skills have not been recognized and due to being the underdog with no recognition, you feel the need to explore avenues to vent.
With this being the scenario, it would make sense that you need to bully, threaten and attempt to manipulate for your own vanity and arrogance.
I guess that prats, with little or no common decency towards their fellow man, need to feel important and authoritative.
Warren
No Peter, so far it’s just you & Cathye that are bleating on about completely irrelevant twaddle. You’re like those irritating ads on telly that interrupt the movie just at that crucial nail biting moment. The ads have every right to feature on the telly of course & sure there must be some folk who enjoy watching them. Not me tho’. Now why do you think anyone would be remotely interested in your school grades??? What has that got to do with anything? Seems you have self-esteem issues and no sense of humour. Cathy sounds off like one of those kids who pulls wings off flies & gets excited when a fight breaks out in the schoolyard – as she can’t wait to join in.
As for meeting with Leon quite frankly I’d be too scared to go anywhere near the guy. Power has gone to his head. Wait for when he’s Chairman of the MDGA too – we’ll all be living in the Republic of MDG governed by Lord Leon.
Now why don’t you & Cathye tootle off and go compare school grades with your friends. Must make for fascinating conversation.
(please take Leon to look at the post above from your NH Watch – seems altruistic volunteerism can work even in your own neighbourhood)
My!My!My!I got me a grade 4 and me mum made it to 3 all while we’s 5 of us lived in a wee little house. My!!My!!My!!I got me to grade 2 and me dad well he was in special school and me, mum, dad, gramps and me 5 brudders had to live in a one-woom wendy house.My!!!My!!!My!!!You so lucky you wouldna know it. I remember playschool and me mum saying lucky we were, me ma didna go to school as for dad he was taught by me gramps in the dark widda lantern. Me dad, gramps, gramma & his 10 brudders & sistas lived all together in a shoebox…
JT, you and your cronies would like to call the shots and when someone challenges you, you dislike it. I realise though, that you have nothing better to do with your pathetic life. Seeing that this issue is with Leon, he is doing a fine job as he is always busy at the club house with NO PAY and should be admired for that. Why don’t you become Chairman ? seeing that you have so much to say.Also, you obviously have a lot of time, please offer your services.
No Cathye – I love a good challenge – but about the issue at hand. If we’re discussing apples don’t start talking about grapefruit and quoting dumb-ass sayings that are of no relevance. I don’t care if Leon is Chairman. Doesn’t bother me in the least. It’s the compulsory membership of what is a social club that is the rub. The underlying principle conflicts with the freedoms enshrined in the constitution of this country. Get it? The MDGA issue is too complex for you to understand.
Now run along and go play nicely at the club. Take Peter with you.
Hi. This is Cathy, the original one.
Leon, I, like some of the others on this site, am absolutely terrified of my own safety and therefore I feel I cannot attend your meetings. I would not feel safe.
I take your threat very seriously and will take the matter further.
Love
Cathy
(Also known as the Lamb Chop)
Peter & Cathye you are wrong. Jt is right to say that you have the wrong end of the stick so let me summarise.
There was this girl who was bored at night. She wanted to play with her companions but their battyries where flat. Can not phone a friend as it is to late – 12pm. So what now. Go see if any of my virtaul friends are awake. Sadly none where. Due to frustration she wrote an article to that place call www
If she was clever enough like I am she would have made sure that the companions where using rechargable batteries and where on charge at all times. At least they would have hummmmm away during the night and listened to her song.
So Cathye and Peter now you know the full story.
Let sleeping dogs lie.
Anita requested me to back off a bit so I will be doing that for a while. Maybe this went a bit to far and a true leader knows when to walk away.
The bloggers has won for now.
And in his parting shot, the man exposes himself for what he really is … a base, dispicable fool.
Run, Rabit! Run, Rabit! Run! Run! Run!
Don’t give the Lamb Chop her fun, fun, fun.
Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Goes the Lamb Chop’s gun.
So run, Rabit! Run, Rabit! Run! Run! Run!
Kevin, butt out. You have no idea what you are talking about as you live in Lakeside and are not being pushed like we are from both sides.
Love
Cathy
Of al, the comments 83 at the last count 19 are from you jt. Who is the “irritating ad” now?
Cathye you and I must have touched a nerve!
Jt, if all you can do in response is to hurl insults then I suggest that you do us all a favour and dodge cars on Prince George Drive. Take Warren with you.
This will be my last response to you.
pssst guys you can come out now. coast is clear. those dreadful ads have finally gone (took some doing though).
now let’s do the maths: if as leon says 80% of 268 SMRC members are paid-up @ R50pm that means that of a total R13,400pm there is a short-fall of R2,680pm. apportion this amongst the 80% and they will each pay R62.50pm – not a lot more and for active members this is still really good value. assuming the club is & remains that popular, then there really is no excuse not to make membership voluntary.
charging non-members a modest entrance fee would also go a long way to compensating for the shortfall (excluding guests of paid-up members of course).
just imagine Leon no more arguments or disputes, peace & quiet, everyone living in harmony and a club that will only have enthusiastic members who support you and more money in the coffers! does that not make the slightest bit of sense to you?
WHOOOOOAAAAA STOP THE LORRY!! I am so excited. Lordy, Leon, I owe you an apology of note. You’re right your title says you own the Club!! This could be huge. Bigger than huge. This means that some title deeds say member and some say owner. Vrek but that’s weird! Everybody check your title deeds straight away to see if you’re an owner or just a member. My goodness no wonder there is so much confusion in San Marina. I can’t believe nobody has picked this up before – but see, dears, how open dialogue helps clear things up. Leon could even be the sole owner of the Club and indeed an instant millionnaire. Leon you better check this out and let us know the tally ‘owner members’ vs ‘non-owner members’. I wait in great anticipation…
Julius, we are pleased to see that you keep your batteries recharged at all times so that you may have company at night. Why do you think that we should be interested in this little titbit though?
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